Hearing Cancer Free or In Remission; Now what?

Maggie Judge: 00:00:00

Hearing cancer free or in remission, the freedom of fear and the ongoing healing. Welcome back to our listeners. Today, this interesting question is gonna lead us down a path of talking about something I never knew going into my breast cancer journey, how important this would be. But to start with when you think about cancer free, or in remission, like we all have our sights set on getting that cancer out of us. But what does it mean, when we get to the other side of all of the treatments? And Deena, again, you and I have had we have the same diagnosis? Yes, we did. Yes, we do triple positive invasive ductal carcinoma, and our experiences have been so completely different. And this is in that bucket. So can you tell us what your oncologist said to you when you got to the other side of your treatments?

Dina Legland: 00:01:12

Well, that is, it's amazing, because we we might end up having many people say it one way, and other people will say it another way. And my oncologist was so emphatic about saying in remission, you are in remission, he would never, and he told me, I never say this cancer free and be equal. And his reasoning because I asked them, and he was always just blunt to the point. He's like, I don't know if there's any other cancerous cells floating around in your body. And I said, What do you mean? Yeah, we hold up quite a bit Time out. Time out here. What are you talking about? And I was just like, Okay, I mean, that he does. I mean, he's a, he was a top notch oncologist, and he was really into research. And he was like, sorry, but I don't know if there's any dormant cancer cells floating around. That will be activated. However, the words that I use is you're in remission.

Maggie Judge: 00:02:31

So in it, okay. And he didn't say it because of your kind of cancer or your situation. He said it because of how he feels about the treatment of cancer period. Right?

Dina Legland: 00:02:42

That's, and we're talking about an oncologist that just recently retired. He was my oncologist back up in New York, okay. And he recommended this oncologist that I'm seeing here in southern Florida now, so they know each other. So that was, that was really cool. Yeah. I'm sure we can get into an episode about that kind of those kinds of things as well. But yeah, no, he was just like, No, sorry. This is the terms that I use.

Maggie Judge: 00:03:14

So it's, it's fascinating to me, because my situation is it started similar but it turned opposite because I went into my I had two oncologists. And so in the beginning, my oncologist was very matter of fact, very, she was just super smart, more of a quiet person. But she actually would talk about getting to remission, get into remission, that's what I didn't call that. Okay. And so, when I finished my treatments, I was now going to my, my new oncologist, which that's a whole other story of how I switched. And when I got my second opinion, I actually started my new oncologist whom I love. And when I went to him, after I finished my last treatment, I use the words in remission intentionally because I wanted to be careful because of what my other oncologist had been saying the whole time. Yeah, absolutely. And I said something in remission, and I kept going, and he said, Stop, my oncologist like was, I am going to interrupt you right there. You are not in remission. Maybe you are cancer free. Let's just sit with that for a second. Like the fact that he wants to and, and a big part of that is I know, he believes in the power of mindset, because we've had those conversations too. And so he wanted me to know what and feel that cancer free versus just I'm in remission now. And we're in you didn't want me to be in wait mode.

Dina Legland: 00:05:02

Right? Absolutely. You know, and that's that's the key here. Technically, just because my oncologist is so emphatic about saying remission, that doesn't mean I have to stay with that. Okay. I could say I'm cancer free. It's me, it's my body. It's my mindset.

Unknown: 00:05:25

Exactly, you know, and it's just like, okay, that's the word you use, but I'm gonna say I'm cancer free.

Maggie Judge: 00:05:33

Because I believe and I know, you believe we are both on the other side of it. Now, the other side of it. This is the whole interesting piece of this conversation, right? What does that mean?

Dina Legland: 00:05:47

And what does it mean?

Maggie Judge: 00:05:49

Yeah, so healing has shifted for both of us.

Dina Legland: 00:05:53

Yes. And I think ongoing healing will shift forever. Yes, absolutely. I really, truly do. And I'm, I'm a true believer in that, because of everything that's going to take place from this point forward. And let's just say, I'm on a medication. Okay, and the medication that I'm on is letrozole. And the letrozole gives you side effects. It's just the nature of the beast. And I have to be on it for a total of 10 years because of the diagnosis and the research. And they found that women who are on it for 10 years have a so much better rate of not having a recurrence. You know, it's proven, it's signed, you know, they they've done the science. And I know there are women out there that are listening who have come off their medication, whether it was the tamoxifen or the letrozole, you know, their side effects was so bad that they needed to come off of it, or they just don't want to be on it anymore. And I want our listeners to know that just because I'm talking about my experience, that doesn't mean that if you say I'm not taking it, that's okay. The choice is yours.

Maggie Judge: 00:07:29

That's a great point, Dina, because as part of my new ongoing healing, this is like a different treatment, right that I'm on the hormone blockers because of my triple positive extra positive progesterone or estrogen and progesterone and I take XMS stain. And that for five years is what they told me. But it's this tiny, tiny pill every night wreaks havoc on my joints. And so when I do go to the doctor and talk to him about that, to your point, he he even says to me, you don't have to take it, but I wish you would. So if it gets to the point where it's unbearable, we can switch and we did we tried a few different ones until we landed on the least intrusive one on my joints. But yeah, to your point, it's like everybody gets to make that choice. I I would rather err on the side of reducing the risk of reoccurrence. And so I'm gonna, I'm gonna for now just keep taking it and see where it goes. But yeah, it's a killer on the joints.

Dina Legland: 00:08:47

So to take that one step further. So the ongoing healing process of that is I have to move. So I do exercise, because if I do nothing, it hurts even more. I do go for acupuncture, which has helped. Okay, I even have a spray that I spray on my knees from the doctor who's the acupuncturist. And that helps. And when I exercise is his one more step here. When I exercise, I wear the knee sleeves so that my joints stay warm, and I could move better. So the point I'm trying to make is the ongoing healing you have to it's yes, I am cancer free. I am in remission. I am so happy as I'm sure you are as well but the mind has to say what do I have to keep doing to heal to get me through certain aspects of this journey.

Maggie Judge: 00:09:57

And what you just said and what you made me Think of their Drina is that? Yes. When you get to that other side, and now we're on these ongoing medications, so we have our check ins, right. And I'll come back to that. But it's almost like this. Now we're accountable for figuring it out. For sure. Because we don't have the medical team right there either making suggestions are there to talk to about it and keep it fresh top of mind. Right? It's almost like it becomes a different tier, you just shift into a different mode of healing, which has to be about the body, but also the mind and the spirit. Right. It's your emotions as it relates to these pains. Because it, how can we be motivated to exercise when we're in so much pain? But we know we got to do it? To your point?

Dina Legland: 00:10:53

Yes, yes. And I actually developed osteopenia, which can turn into osteoporosis. So I have to go for bone density tests every two years. And one of the benefits or one of the things to do to help the osteopenia is to lift weights. And it's just like, oh, okay, you know, the joints hurt, the knees hurt, and you want me to push weights, or weights, push weights, whatever you want to want to want to say. And it's just like, there's days and I'm just like, I don't feel like doing this. But I know that it's part of my healing.

Maggie Judge: 00:11:40

Well, and you brought up a point, I want to make sure to stress this with our listeners, because I was told I needed to get my bone scans every quarter. And what's interesting is my insurance kicked back. No, my my nurse navigator kicked back and said you better call your insurance because I think they only approve one every two years. Right? And here's me sitting there going well. But Aren't I supposed to do them quarterly? And she's just telling me you better check your insurance? Well, my insurance isn't going to make my health decision for me. No. But then there's all those dynamics of people struggling with the Okay, is it going to be covered? Is it not going to be covered? Or what but it comes down to do? What what is my decision? I want to get those scans, right. So first, I'm going to call my insurance, but that's not going to dictate what I do.

Dina Legland: 00:12:42

No, no, which, but unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there where if their insurances not allowing them to have certain procedures, certain tests, certain scans, they're not going to and they can't afford it, then they're not going to be able to do it now. And you know, that's, that plays havoc on your emotions in your mindset, in order to keep being able to stay healthy and strong in every aspect of our lives. Because we need to heal.

Maggie Judge: 00:13:18

Right. Right. Well, and the reason that you made me think that that I thought about that to Dina is that when you when I think about that decision, if those bone scans were super expensive, and I could only afford one a year. If I approached my doctor with that, he might say, you know, that's probably okay. Right? Am I comfortable with that? So this gets at the thing where it's almost like, it's almost like we have to become even a stronger self advocate for what our ongoing healing means. Because we're, we're pushing more for what we need, because we're not on our own. But we're on our own, if that makes sense.

Dina Legland: 00:14:02

Yeah, actually, we are on our own because let's, let's back up a second. When you're going through your treatments, when you're going through your surgeries, when you go through, you know, radiation, chemo, whatever the plan is, we are involved and seeing our medical team. Once you hear the words cancer free, or you're in remission, now your appointments go to every six months. Some people go yearly, you know, and then some people go every five years, depending on their journey. And you you actually start to feel once again alone, or different fears started to show up. And it's like, how do I navigate this? I'm supposed to be healing. How do I navigate this? And not only do we let go well, we Don't see our medical team, as frequently. Everybody in our lives turn around and say, Yay, you're in remission, you're cancer free, this is great. And then they expect you to be the same person. And, and everybody says to you, oh, you're fine. Now. Let's go do this. You can do this for me. Let's do this, you know, and it's just like, wait a minute timeout here.

Maggie Judge: 00:15:28

Yeah. And actually, that is a brilliant point, too, because it, it is, we have a new normal, but everybody just sees it as Okay, now we're going back to normal back to the way it was, before you were diagnosed is where we are. And it couldn't be further from the truth. Right. So it's hard to say that too, because I know we both are so grateful to be cancer free. But it is it is a new, there's so many things like we talked about in the last episode of just the things we lose, and the things we gain, right, the people that we maybe we spend our time differently, maybe we see we have different people in our circle all of that. But it becomes so very important to surround ourselves with community, which is why I know you and I got instantly close when we connected it's like because we get it. Right. Right. And we can support each other in that. And I love that both of us have found ways to keep that community piece alive. Yeah, and, and support ourselves hold ourselves and each other accountable through that. For me, it's it's the love me healing community and resources and that sort of thing. For us. It's this podcast.

Dina Legland: 00:16:55

Yep. It's our podcast now. Absolutely. And I am actually a co founder of something called the breast connection, Prevention Plus healing. And we invite everyone to this, because it's about preventing, along with ongoing healing, whether you have breast cancer or you don't or you know, somebody that does or you want to prevent it. And it's the same thing with my one on one coaching and my group coaching for wellness warriors for life because it's a community. Yep. You know, I'm helping women in remission, conquer certain fears, and learn how to just move through them and learn how to figure out the ongoing healing process. And what's stopping them. Um, you know, so we both have a lot because I truly believe we heal with community.

Unknown: 00:17:57

Yes, yeah, really do. Absolutely.

Maggie Judge: 00:18:00

Absolutely. And so we have so much more conversation we're gonna have around just ongoing ongoing healing in general. But I think this is a good point to wrap up this episode. So thank you so much Dina,