FEAR: Radiation

Maggie Judge: 00:00:00

Radiation definitely sparks fear. Here we share personal stories, experiences and approaches to this hot topic.

Dina Legland: 00:00:10

Hi, welcome back to Heal Inside and Out. Today, Maggie and I are going to continue our conversation around fear. But before we get into it, I would like to provide a trigger warning. So if there is something here that you start listening to, because we do get real and raw about breast cancer, our experiences. If this is not for you today, then by all means, come back at another time. We want everybody to feel safe, comfortable as we go through these episodes. So today's episode is about radiation. We spoke about port installation, we talked about chemo. Now we're going to talk about radiation. So Maggie, I am a little confused, because I truly don't remember if you went through radiation or not.

Maggie Judge: 00:01:15

I did.

Dina Legland: 00:01:16

You did. Okay. So please tell us what was so fearful for you about radiation.

Maggie Judge: 00:01:31

Um, I understand your confusion because I tried not to, I did not want to radiation was probably my number one fear back when I was facing all of the treatment, things they laid out for me. Right. And I, I talked about all the stuff with chemo, the toxicity, right? But when I was looking at radiation, being, you know, our breasts are right by our heart. And it's like, now they're going to put a laser beam into my chest area. How are they going to get it just where it needs? Like I just had so much fear around what radiation would do. And here was my here was my challenge. I refuse to Google. Because I did not want to go down the rabbit hole of all of the fearful things that could come up about any of the treatments, right?

Dina Legland: 00:02:33

Yes, that is true. A lot of people love to just get on the internet and just search search, search, search search, and then they get more upset.

Maggie Judge: 00:02:41

Yes. And so when when I wanted to learn something, it was talking to other women like yourself who have been through this. And so I was talking to some women that have not had radiation and had gone through radiation. There was a big mixed bag of experience. But my acupuncturist was one that said, Don't do it. Wow, he skipped it. And so we had this conversation about Okay, so if I don't do it, what do I do? She's also the one that pointed me to my Chinese doctor who I very much love and, and had appreciated all through my journey. And but she had mentioned not to do it. Because all you have to do is shift your diet. Her view was if you shifted your diet, you could avoid radiation. When I enquired more here was the answer. No more dairy, no more meat. No more sugar, no more alcohol. No. And it's like, well, for how long for the rest of your life for the rest of your life. I'm all by myself.

Dina Legland: 00:03:56

Yes, that's it. That's a pretty big ask. Yes.

Maggie Judge: 00:03:59

And she is one that is doing that she is. She's all about it. And I admire that and that's wonderful because she went through breast cancer and she did not go through radiation and she is doing great. Now I'm not saying this or listeners go and do that because again, everybody is different. But I just feared that piece of what would the immediate effects be and or what would the lat lasting effects because it can burn your skin and it can create different things inside and whatnot. But when I talked to my radiologists, she was such a dear.

Dina Legland: 00:04:42

Oh wow. That's great.

Maggie Judge: 00:04:44

She made me feel so comfortable. And my husband was really good about helping me prepare all my questions going in to my appointment and so I had a long list but she she said to me think of it like Energy. Your body has this cancer in it, that is an energy we need to get out. The radiation is a different energy that is going to go directly to that and combat it. And we have gotten the science to the, you know her scientific words I can't read. I don't remember but to the microscopic, laser focused, it's not getting your whole breast. It's going exactly to your point. Yes. And it was on the opposite side of my heart on the outside of my chest saw. She just gave me comfort. But that, yeah, radiation, it was, again, the toxicity. There's a theme here.

Dina Legland: 00:05:45

I was just gonna say this. There's there's actually two themes that I'm hearing from you is heart and toxicity. You know, yeah. Wow. But it's nice to hear that the radiologist took her time with you to explain and put it in terms that we understand. Yes, yes. Just saying, Oh, you need radiation. This is what you got to do and have conversation? No, no, we have a choice.

Maggie Judge: 00:06:18

Well, and Dena, that's an excellent point. Because my oncologist did tell me, my you know, my daughter was an RN, before COVID, she came with me, I was able to bring her into my one of my appointments. My husband was out in the car on speakerphone, and Susie, my daughter got to come in and listen in. And the way that they had laid it out, they said you will do six chemos will do your mom back to me. And then you'll get radiation. And then you'll have more chemo. And I said, What if I don't want to do radiation? And her answer was simply, why wouldn't you? That's what we need to do. It's proven. And so, but she was the surgeon. So I was consulting with the wrong person, what I needed to do is consult with the right person to understand again, to your point, my options, my choices, because I was left feeling like I don't have a choice. And I still don't understand. Right? So asking those questions, advocating for yourself that and having someone that will hold space and listen, and make sure you understand in a language you understand is key.

Dina Legland: 00:07:30

Right? So that's truly how you ended up navigating these fears of radiation. So can you wrap up, and just give the point of how you navigated it. I mean, I heard it as you were explaining your story, but give us two or three exact things that you did to navigate through this. So to navigate

Maggie Judge: 00:07:57

it, I, I got the answers to my questions and concerns addressed from the right person, which I was blessed. And I again, found ways to let go of the fearful thoughts about it, and trust. And a big part of that is I loved my radiology team. And then I had my headphones on, I got to pick my music I was jamming in there with we just we have a lot of fun together. And I think going in there. And, and being sort of playful and silly with them. Right also helped me forget about what was happening in those very small minutes where I was laying there. Getting the treatment.

Dina Legland: 00:08:47

That's what I wanted you to say. Or please say to our audience, how fast or how many minutes, is it really to get irradiated? And come back out?

Maggie Judge: 00:09:03

Okay, I'm chuckling because I would much I would compete with myself every day. So I went 20 days in a row. I don't mean to laugh, but that's kind of funny. I'm sorry. Well, and in my brother is Mr. time so I would like to get out in I would start my timer. I get out. I go in, I get dressed fast. And I'd whip down there and they're always like, Oh, she's ready already. And I'd lay down and I think my treatments were way. I don't mean, I don't remember now. 767 not even six, seven minutes, right. I was out into my car. Within eight minutes. One day. That was my record. I call eight minutes. I did it. So yes, it's a very small amount of time now. Yeah, so that doesn't make it easy, but it was less daunting and overwhelming. After they fitted me and they said we're gonna go get you in and out of here every day really quick.

Dina Legland: 00:10:03

Right? It takes actually longer to mark the body on that initial visit, so that they can actually totally pinpoint into that one area in nothing around just that one they get right in there, like a little beam of light.

Maggie Judge: 00:10:21

And I'm glad you said it that way do you know because one of the other things that helped me a lot is, when I go back to the asking the questions that I was concerned about, I said, Well, what if I move? What if I sneeze or I move? And they were really good at helping me understand the I don't the again, I don't know the medical terms, but the the room of or the? I don't know, the space or range air? Yeah, that being moved, it would like tick off or do something but they they just the way that they explain the science was and the equipment was it just makes you feel comfortable? So Wow. So yeah, it was playfulness with my team. Yes. And, and making that sort of competition against myself to get in and out of there quick and really making sure that my questions were and concerns were addressed. Right. So. So how about you do not what about you with radiation?

Dina Legland: 00:11:22

Well, I have a very, very short story, because I did not have radiation. I'm confused too, because no, no, no, I actually I didn't. When when I got diagnosed, they said three sentinel lymph nodes looked iffy. One more so out of the out of the other two. And I went in to get my port put in, and then ready for my first, you know, chemo treatments, which I did that first. But when they went in to do my bilateral mastectomy, they said to me, we're going to put you under, but we don't know if you're going to come out with having to have radiation or not. So I went into surgery thinking, Oh, alright, I've had the last few months, four months of chemotherapy. Now I'm going in for a bilateral mastectomy. And I might come out and be told, I need radiation. Now being a nurse, and taking care of patients who've had radiation to the breasts, I've seen a lot of great outcomes, and a lot of poor outcomes. So my mind going into surgery was like, Oh, please, please no radiation, please note. So that's how I went into surgery. So right before surgery, they gave me radioactive dye to light up my lymph nodes. And the doctor said, If one, if the one that we think has cancer in it, then you're going to need radiation. So when I woke up, they told me Nope, that we did take out three lymph nodes, but they were all fine. There was no cancer whatsoever. But the thought of having to wake up and now go through something else is what I was fearful of. But I also said to myself, it is what it's it is it's going to be what it's going to be. And if I do have to go through radiation that puts off my implants that puts off the tissue expanders because radiation, I would have to wait till after radiation. They couldn't do that before and then radiate implants. They don't do it that way. Well, as far as I know, they don't do it that way. That's what my how my doctors explained it to me. I would have to have implants put in after the radiation. And as we know radiation can burn the skin. It doesn't stretch as much. So now I'm thinking alright, a do I need radiation be if I get radiation? How long is it going to be before I got my implants because I needed a mastectomy.

Maggie Judge: 00:14:37

So your fear was obviously you were left with an unknown going under like that is huge. And then it was you had heard mixed bag of that success but mixed bag of side effects and issue yes from radiation. So there was that fear? Yes. And then the fear of prolonging The treatments you were already facing that were part of the plan.

Dina Legland: 00:15:04

Yep, it could have thrown, it would have thrown a huge, what I call a monkey wrench into the plan. And it was something that before I went under, I looked at my husband and I said, All right, whatever it's gonna be, it's gonna be and he's like, we will figure this out. We will get get through it together. You know, we'll listen to the doctors figure out what else that needs to be done to make it easier. And to wake up to not to wake up being told I don't need radiation was like a big relief. I bet. It really it really was not to say that what I went through was a walk in the park either. But, you know, it was just something that I didn't want added to the plan.

Maggie Judge: 00:15:59

Well, it sounds like the way you navigate these types of things. You have this, this. I know this about you personally as well, but just this, this natural ability to Okay. It's it is what it is, we're going to face it, we're gonna get through it. And so the fear the fear was obviously there for multiple reasons. But you had Bobby there. Yes. And you were also just surrendering to, okay, we'll deal with that when I wake up. And thank goodness for that message.

Dina Legland: 00:16:37

I really had to go under anesthesia with a positive attitude. So like you said, when you're get wheeled into the operating room, I mean, I love my breast reconstructive surgeon, and my breast surgeon as well, it was my breast surgeon was a woman. And my breast reconstructive surgeon was a guy and they work together like gold. They were so they're so in sync with each other. They were amazing. But when we went in, same thing what music's playing? I'm joking around about All right, please make sure that you don't take another body part. Just make sure you take the two boobs, make sure you do this. Make sure that and then like what is with you, I was like, Well, you got to kind of have a little fun here. And I'm like, I'm freezing. You guys are going to be sweating. I'm freezing. Can I make sure I have my warm blankets and this they're like, Oh my God, you are just hysterical. Okay, so

Maggie Judge: 00:17:38

Biden is a theme here. I love it.

Dina Legland: 00:17:41

Yes, yes, I joke around about quite a few things. And people kind of either like it or don't like it.

Maggie Judge: 00:17:50

And I will say to that, you know, it's it's, it's easier for us having been through this to look back on our individual journey. And also think of these things in a more fun way. Not fun, but you know what I mean? Like, like, recall things and enjoy talking about them and learning from each other about them sharing with each other, and others, our listeners. And the one thing I want to make sure is we we never mean to take things lightly. And I know I can speak for you on that. Right?

Dina Legland: 00:18:27

Yes, yes,

Maggie Judge: 00:18:28

absolutely. And the other thing is, is we are sharing our personal experience. And what's very important is and I think we have to keep stressing this is that obviously this is not medical advice, and that anything that were to be decided you or thought about you talk to your oncologist, that's just something I wanted to stress to our listeners about their own unique circumstances, their own treatment might look way different.

Dina Legland: 00:18:59

Right? And I agree with that. 100%. But I always love to emphasize that as an individual, as a human being, you have the right to choose. And I might say that in almost every episode, and people might get tired of hearing it but I I just wish that that is something that I I really want to empower our listeners not to be afraid not to be fearful of making the choice that you want. And you feel comfortable with.

Maggie Judge: 00:19:44

You have to feel comfortable

Dina Legland: 00:19:46

Yeah, exactly.

Maggie Judge: 00:19:48

I agree with you. And I think too that I got to a point where it took me a while to even understand that I had choices because you get thrown into thing so fast up front that it's like, like I said, last time, you know, you got all these appointments, you're gonna meet with this person and that person, they're gonna lay out your plan and it can be so overwhelming but to realize that and make sure you're just doing your research for me it was talking to other women learning from other experience. Also talking to your medical doctors and just being open, but it isn't their body. It's your body. So I couldn't agree more. And can I vote for another episode to be about the lumpectomy and mastectomy?

Dina Legland: 00:20:39

Oh, absolutely. as we as we unfold here, we are going to come up with we can stay on one thing, one topic of discussion for maybe a few episodes that will give power or empower people listening. Yes, and I truly hope that who is listening to this episode has gotten some true value in it to be able to look at this in a different light. Agree agree. Good. All right here so here we are at the end of this episode and I want to thank you Maggie for sharing and till our next episode it's it's this is just so amazing.

Maggie Judge: 00:21:34

So amazingly rewarding. And thank you as well, my dear.