Does FEAR Truly Go Away?

Dina Legland: 00:00:00

How does the ongoing cycle of fears change as we navigate breast cancer remission and beyond? Welcome back, everyone to heal inside and out. And today, I want to say we're gonna have a great conversation, Maggie, I can't wait to bring this up to our listeners and viewers. And in our earlier episodes, we talked a lot about fear associated with the process, the journey that unfolds with breast cancer, what we haven't touched on all the fears that we face, when we are when we are on the other side of our treatments. And I have done a lot of research and I have found that there are no support healing groups that exist for the ongoing healing aspect of our journeys. You know, I've looked at my own cancer center, and some surrounding cancer centers and where I live in Southern Florida, and there really aren't any. And we're used to looking for some guidance for some, you know, inspiration. And I'm wondering, Maggie, what have you come across when it comes to maybe a fear or to post treatment?

Maggie Judge: 00:01:31

There, there's Okay, a fair to do I have to stop there. No, I'm just kidding.

Unknown: 00:01:37

I know the list can go on. Right? Right, it's gonna go on,

Maggie Judge: 00:01:39

we don't want to scare the hell out of our listeners, right. But I know they're gonna be able to relate to this conversation. I first have to say, though, I couldn't agree more that when you think about as we're going through the journey with our medical team totally focused on helping us get this cancer out of us. We get brochure after brochure, and full, all of the information about all the stuff that will help us. And then it's almost it's not this bad. But the analogy that comes to mind, for me, it's almost like a ghost town. When you everybody

Dina Legland: 00:02:16

disappears. Yeah, it's like disappearance. It's like the magic trick.

Maggie Judge: 00:02:20

Exactly. And to the point where you even have to like, push for, oh, I'm due for an appointment here, I'd better reach out because I'd say that in mind, they're like, moving on. And now maybe that's not everybody's experience. But I get to that their goal is to get the cancer out of us. And then they move on to the next patient. Right. So. So all of that to say, I do think that that is a huge missing link of how do we support those that are on the other side of all their treatments? Because that doesn't mean it's over. We talked about this. So it's so not over that we have fears that we want to talk about, right? So do you not you and I are both in our ongoing healing. We're on the other side of those main treatments. I have been given the cancer free. I want to say good gift, my cancer

Dina Legland: 00:03:21

free ticket, check out cancer free ticket.

Maggie Judge: 00:03:24

Thank you. I know your doctor doesn't hand those out. We already talked about that. But you

Dina Legland: 00:03:28

know, he says I'm different.

Maggie Judge: 00:03:31

But with that, now, my fears are there, but they're different. Right? So a couple examples now to finally answer your question. For me, it's like a big one is all of all of the aches and pains that I've like new aches and pains or even same but it's like, Okay, this one's more intense. Now, what does that mean? Is something happening is something re surfacing in my body. And so those aches and pains that used to seem trivial. And as women, I think we're really good at stuffing them or ignoring them or dismissing them as meaning anything. Now all of a sudden they have meaning. We don't know what, well, it scares the shit out of us. And so that's a big one for me. Do you experience that one?

Dina Legland: 00:04:26

I do experience that when I do have osteoarthritis and both my knees and my right knee is worse than my left knee and I have developed osteopenia. And just recently funny we should be talking about this. My knee is making a different clicking noise. And I'm like, Okay, this is interesting. And the bottom line is is like, what's going on? Is it did the osteopenia get worse is osteoporosis is the author right? It's even worse when I need surgery. But before, it's just like, your mind goes in so many different directions with this, and you really have to stop and say, All right, let's, let's take a breather here. And this is where sometimes Breathworks comes in. And you and I have spoke about this many times. But I want to just talk about one of my greatest fears right now. And I know I've spoke about this in other episodes, it's that I need another surgery. And I have by, you know, I had a bilateral mastectomy, I have implants. And the pockets on each side of the implants have opened up. And I have this thing in my head is, do I just fix the pockets? Do I just go in for a revision? Or do I take my implants out and go flat. And I don't want my fear to make the decision for me, I want informed medical information there. And I know, doctors cannot guarantee anything. And I get that. And I've been doing a lot of research. And I would say the research I'm doing is not looking up on the internet, because we've done an episode on going down a rabbit hole. And it's more about talking to women who have had, you know, implants and took them out. It's that kind of research. And it's something that plays very heavy on my mind, because I want to do the surgery. I'm not in any danger right now. Or it's not an emergency. Now, it's just like, when do I want to do this? Are they gonna go in there and find something? Yes, I don't have any breast tissue. But I do have a chest wall, I have muscles, I have organs. It's just like, what are they going to find when they go in there? What is the process going to be like when I come out of that surgery? Well, I have extensive scar tissue where now I need the drains. Okay? Or do am I going to need even more revision surgeries because of skin. Like there's just so many things going through my mind. And and it's very fearful, it truly is. But I want to make the right decision for myself, and nobody else. And we've talked about this, making those decisions for ourselves, and learning how to work through a little bit of this fear.

Maggie Judge: 00:07:51

I love how you said that not having the fear make the decision, which is a really tough challenge when there is so much fear there. Right? Absolutely. And I love though how you said to be informed and it's not the doctors know a lot. The doctors are the experts in these areas. But you're not just relying on what your doctor says you are talking to others to learn it because yeah, I think the informed part, and that ties to one of mine. It's not surgery related. But one of mine is really the getting more informed about alternatives to that post treatment treatment. So I'm on the other side of my primary treatment. And I'm facing like, you know, five from the five years of hormone blockers. Yes, me too. And the hormone blockers we've tried, I'm on my third kind, because they're just wreaking havoc on my joints. And not just to the point where it's just harder to open a jar or it's uncomfortable. It's like when I get up in the middle of the night to go use the restroom. It is it's it's hard to walk, it's hard to sit it's hard to get up there's like I it is so bad at night. So anyway, I say that because my big fear is what is this doing? I can muscle through four more years. What is this doing to my joints? Is it causing permanent damage? Right now I'm trying to get informed on what are the alternatives. And I haven't found any yet that I'm I'm still learning. But then there's the fear of if I go with something that I find and stop these will it come back because my oncologist doesn't want me to stop taking them for fear that the cancer will come back. So So there's all of that, right. So I know there's people out there nodding. These hormone blockers.

Dina Legland: 00:09:55

Yeah, it's one of those catch 22 situations. Mm. You know, making this decision whether to have a revision of my implants, or take them out and go flat leaves the fear of being less attractive. And as I think about this, it's something that just stirred right up since I was a little kid going flat. I would think about how others would perceive me my body image. There are plenty of people out there, whether they're men or women, it doesn't matter. No, you need to look like a woman, you need to have breasts. And then a part of me goes back to before I hit puberty, when I had no boobs, and people thought I was a boy. And how I got teased and made fun of I literally, I literally went on a ski trip with my dad and family members. And one of the ski instructors thought I was a boy,

Maggie Judge: 00:11:14

the connection, the power of the connection to that. Yeah, negative hard experience in your life.

Dina Legland: 00:11:24

Yes. And it really didn't occur to me till we started talking about this today. And I want our listeners and viewers to know that when you listen to our podcasts, things might come up that you don't realize, are there and something triggers it, and it's okay. And we've always talked about feel the feels. And that's what I'm feeling right now. Like, I'm that little girl that look like a boy. And I know that I've had issues with my implant with the relationship and then the intimacy with my husband. And another thing that plays havoc in my brain is will he see me differently? Will he not want to hug me or touch me? Or things like that is bad enough women that are in perimenopause, menopause, and post menopause, all the issues that we have with that with our bodies, you know, some weight gain in some thinning hair, some dry skin, like and then add this on top of it. It's like, like, the fireworks go off. It's like, what direction do I go in? And this is not to scare anybody, please. It's just our podcast is about being real and raw. And these are the things that nobody wants to talk about.

Maggie Judge: 00:12:58

It's the things that we face, right? And we all face them differently. And we all face different aspects of them. But no, it's it's a thank you for sharing that. That's a that's a big one, that identity thing and the how we feel about it. And to your point, we're piling this on top of menopause because it's medical induced, regardless of your age. Right. So it's just, there's so much there.

Dina Legland: 00:13:24

I'm sure we can come up with some more episodes.

Maggie Judge: 00:13:26

Yeah, right. But right. Well, in any year, the whole this brings from up for me, I have this tendency to want to get things right. And I feel like and so I fear getting it wrong, right. So that's where the fear comes into this. But I have this fear of keeping healthy, tending to that as as aspect of this ongoing healing, how do I keep myself healthy enough so that it doesn't come back? Right, okay. And it's like, I sometimes get caught up in the fear of everything I put in my mouth, whether it's things that I'm eating, or things that I'm drinking, everything I'm putting into my body is having an effect on my body. So I sometimes get wrapped up in that piece. But it's a double whammy for me. Because I'm judging myself and giving hard on myself when I have let's say it's too much dairy or too much carbs or too much too many cocktails in a given whatever it is all the things that you know this the society says is wrong for us, right add for us. The SEC the other side of that is I also fear the judgment from others. And I never, ever imagined this One because I've always felt like I've been a pretty healthy eater. But I've been out to lunch with people. And because they know what I've been through, there's like this extra lens that they went on while they see what I consume. And then I hear things like, oh, you can't eat that? Or Why would you eat that? Given my need to avoid cancer again, I mean, just the it owes me away. All of the advice, the unsolicited advice, sometimes you may get about what you need to eat and not eat, and you hear it everywhere. You can't eat this anymore. You can't eat that anymore. You got to eat more of this. There's a million pieces of advice, but no one body is the same.

Dina Legland: 00:15:51

Exactly. Exactly. And there's, I'm just going to add one thing to that. You know, nobody knows. Or adapters can surmise how we got our cancer exam majority, the majority of what my doctor said it's environmental. Could that be the air? The water? Earth? You know, so I understand that our food and our water comes from where it comes from, but, you know, it's making choices that

Maggie Judge: 00:16:28

suit us. Exactly. make the decisions?

Dina Legland: 00:16:31

Absolutely. You know, there are some other things that we seem to worry about. And it's like, all of our appointments. You know, making those appointments. What if it comes back? Yeah. But go ahead. Yeah, no, no, I was gonna say the new aches and pains, like you mentioned before,

Maggie Judge: 00:16:54

yeah. And the long term effects of whether it be the chemo, or the radiation, or the just the drugs we put in our body? What is the long term effect of that down the road, we could even fear that even if we don't feel the aches and pains,

Dina Legland: 00:17:08

exactly, right. You know, and the day to day becomes different to navigate. And we have to be able to accept what that day that particular one day is going to be like no matter what it is. And we're all very different. And we just need to say to ourselves, this is how I'm feeling today. This is what's going on, what am I going to do to navigate it? And how am I going to put my head down on the pillow when say I did the best job I could possibly do? I love that. You know, I'd love that. And we have touched on several of our methods for navigating for ourselves. And we want to do something a little bit different in this episode. And we would like to ask our listeners, how are you navigating your fears, regardless of where you are in your journey? And what we're going to do is that we're going to put in the show notes, the link to leave us a message. And I'm really looking forward to reading those messages. As I'm sure you will Maggie as well. Yes, yes. Because remember, remember, healing truly is inside and out.